Podcast: How We Are Making Market Research More Inclusive

Matt Salem 

Hi, everyone, I’m your host, Matt Salem, and you have tuned in to another episode of Our Best Behavior, a podcast brought to you by Behaviorally winner of the 2020 market research podcast award.

Behaviorally, formerly PRS In Vivo USA, helps brands improve shopper and consumer experiences by defining and diagnosing the behaviors that drive shopper growth. Each month we produce a podcast to share industry insights on trending topics designed to help you make better shopper marketing decisions.

Today, we are joined by my teammate Michelle Cerullo McCorry. And I would like to say my friend as well, after knowing her for so many years, who is a VP of client development here at Behaviorally.

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Hello, Matthew.

 

 

Matt Salem 

Hello there. How are you?

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

I’m doing great today. Thanks for having me on the show.

 

 

Matt Salem 

Pleasure. And I’m so glad you could join. How long have we worked together now? Forever?

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

I’m not sure we should even announce those things that that’s good. But I would say 15 plus years,

 

 

Matt Salem 

right. It’s been a while.

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Yeah, it has been

 

Matt Salem 

It’s been a while. So great to have you on. We have a very interesting topic today: Diversity and Inclusion. And the reason this really came to fruition for us today at the podcast is because we had been part of and are part of the MRS Inclusion pledge, which really made several commitments to a safer and more representative workplace. Things such as equal payment opportunity, ethnic and gender targets for our staff, improving recruitment practices, etc. And I know there’s a lot of work happening in terms of diversity and inclusion at Behaviorally. Michelle, you’ve actually joined a team that was formed, I want to say in 2019, regarding diversity and inclusion,

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Yep, that’s correct. It might have been 2020. But yes, it was definitely formed. Because I think we recognize as a company the importance of this. And while as we will even talk about today, we’re not going to have all the answers, I think the importance is making sure that conversation has started, you know, we can learn as we go. But if you don’t even have the conversation, you’re certainly not making any forward progress.

 

 

Matt Salem 

Absolutely. To stay silent and not talk about it is not going to be a win.

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Exactly.

 

 

Matt Salem 

So, with that, I know that the diversity inclusion team is really focused on three key areas, they are focused on the human resources perspective, business practices, and philanthropy. And I was hoping we could dive into each of those areas today to hear a bit about how Behaviorally is really supporting this all-important topic.

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Definitely.

 

 

Matt Salem 

So, I guess let’s just start on the HR side. I know that we’ve been doing like every other organization out there a ton of recruiting lately, right? I mean, it’s the great resignation, as they call it,

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Exactly.

 

 

Matt Salem 

People are moving from Company A to Company B, and every which way, there’s tons of resumes out there. So how are we ensuring that we are still sustaining a diverse and inclusive environment with so many people leaving and joining the organization here, but everywhere?

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Now? That’s a really good question. And I think, you know, when we reflect on COVID, right, it accelerated a lot of things that were probably going to happen. And I think part of it for Behaviorally was this more flexible working environment, right? You know, we all learned how to work from our homes and work digitally, and kind of be ahead of all that. And what that really allowed us to do from a recruitment perspective was cast a wider net, right? You didn’t have to be near one of our physical locations, that allowed us to really broaden our pool of potential applicants. And in doing so, we were able to achieve a more diverse number of people kind of getting through that initial recruitment process.

So that’s really one-way right-cast a wider net. We have partnerships and are working with even Howard University, right to make sure we really kind of pull in the recruitment of folks that really would help us in that inclusivity and diversification and desire.

Now, the next part of that, right, is you have sort of implicit biases. We all have those. So, what we get resumes, and thankfully, I’ve been getting a lot of them because we’ve been doing a ton of hiring, and it’s been fantastic. They are without the name, right. So, when I’m taking a look at this resume, I know you’ve done a ton of hiring as well. We are really judging based on, you know, what’s on that resume, it’s you know, getting past any bias I may have by a name a female, a male, you know, whatever. And we’re hiring really, truly on skillset. And that’s been phenomenal. Going to be our in-market research.

I’m gonna throw a stat at you because we have to have at least one of those in a podcast, and specifically around women in leadership. So, from 2019, where we were at 40%. Now in 2021, we’re at 53%. So, I’m really proud to kind of say that this is not, not just talk as a company like we’re actually putting our money where our mouth is, and kind of really following through on the pledge that we’ve taken.

 

 

Matt Salem 

That’s great. And I love that stat. You know, thinking about diversity and inclusion. I’d like to thank Aaron Behaviorally. We’re also doing a lot to ensure that we are inclusive to folks. So, when we think about making people feel comfortable, it’s really on us to be proactive and ensure that people can be comfortable When they join the organization, not waiting for them to come to us or give us feedback that they don’t feel included, maybe not in those terms, but anything along that line of substance. And I think we’ve been doing a great job in terms of communicating with our staff over the past years in order to ensure that that happens.

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

No, I think that’s a really good point, I think, you know, in the past couple of years, there’s definitely been more transparency and openness that we’ve projected as a company, I mean, we have town halls monthly to kind of share information, and frankly, information that may be at one point, you know, didn’t feel like everyone needed to know, you know, which is how we’re doing as a business. And let’s be open about that.

Also, quarterly town halls, right. And this is really that opportunity. It’s a small group of people to share your feedback. And I can say that the executive team really wants to hear the feedback. Again, this is not lip service. It’s like, if you have a concern, tell me about it. Because we can’t fix what we don’t know is broken. So, I think people feel really comfortable, kind of knowing they have a voice.

And that’s a broader perspective. And then you even go on a smaller scale. You know, I think as managers, we’re really focused on having, you know, time with our employees to have that one on one, build that relationship beyond just let me tell you what to do today. But it’s like, how are you doing? There’s a camaraderie with all of that. So, I think the environment has been really one that is pretty open and honest. And frankly, if not, you know, let’s, let’s talk about it. The last thing I’ll just say on that is really values.

We’ve done a really push this year to kind of reevaluate what we stand for US company, right? We rebranded in January, the opportunity for us to create the place that we want to work in. So, a lot of work was done on developing those values. And I think now our HR team is taking those around to all different folks within different levels of the organization, different regions to make sure those are really reflective of what they wanted the company to stand for.

 

 

Matt Salem 

Now, those are all great points. And I think it actually dovetails nicely into some of the business practices. The one last piece, which hopefully will bridge us over is, I think the results of this have been outstanding in terms of what we’re seeing in terms of employee satisfaction,

 

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

right

 

 

Matt Salem 

Because if we look at the internal surveys that we’ve been conducting over the past, let’s call it three to four years now, you can see consistent improvement. And I think that’s the fruit of the efforts that are underway. When we think about other business practices, how can we impact through the work that we do? So, it’s a bit different than the work environment, but the actual research that’s taking place?

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

That’s another good question. And this is one we’ve been spending a lot of time on as well with the committee is talking about really the practices that we’re doing in terms of the research we conduct, right, and this starts, I think, all the way at the beginning, you know, and you and I are having those conversations with the client about their target consumer, there’s a couple of ways you can take that, you know, you get a brief, and it says I want to talk to 18 to 40-year-old men that are doing this or whatever. And I’m a little older than that now. So sometimes I have these jokes to my client, and I’m like, Hey, I still buy products.

So, I think it’s bringing that question up to our clients, right? Because certainly, they may have a reason. And this is their target consumer. And that’s the information that they need to hit. But I think again, going back to what I said earlier, is that conversation, let’s talk about your audience, let’s talk about all these people that are buying your products. And that can go across gender, ethnicities, race ages, all of that should come into play so that we are really reflecting in our research the broad population of the United States or, again, Europe, wherever the research may be taking place.

 

Matt Salem 

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And when you think about client requests, surely some of the clients that come to us have other research to support specific targets, right and specific target audiences. But it does feel like there’s also a fair amount that comes with that default. Here’s what I’ve done in the past, or the typical 18 to 34, 35 to 54, 80% female, and those trends are changing. So, it does deserve a fresh look, in many cases.

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Yeah. And I think even speaking a fresh look is just some of the way we ask the questions. And this is something we’re looking into, which will probably be changed pretty soon, you know, it’s no longer just male/female in terms of, you know, what the gender is, we have to allow for other options to come into play in terms of ethnicity.

Many people are biracial. So, we have to allow for those questions to capture that. So, people feel comfortable answering that because you don’t want to exclude people or even turn them off. Frankly, before they even get to answering the questions. We have to just really start thinking about how we’re doing those things. Qualitative.

Honestly, one of our qualitative teammates and I were having a conversation, and even if you think about getting to a facility and someone with disabilities, buildings are built now to accommodate, you know, wheelchairs, etc. But even putting up putting something in a screener that says, you know, is there anything that you need specifically to allow me to get to the facility, just thinking about those things will make us sort of, frankly, better people, better researchers as well, because you’re broadening that target you are allowing for all of those voices to be heard.

 

Matt Salem 

I like that example that you gave from a qualitative perspective because, to me, it just circles back to the idea you have to be proactive and talk about it. Because you may not even realize these types of things when you’re sitting in your own silo. But when you bring other people into the conversation, everybody has their own life experiences, their own trials, and tribulations. And you can learn from that. And you can learn what may be a hurdle for some and what may be something that prevents someone from coming to participate in research, like, hey, I’d like to be able to get there, I just need this help. And if you don’t ask the question, you’re likely not going to find that out. You’re not going to be able to help them.

So, I really do love that example. We talked a bit about the audience. What about when we report our research out to our clients? Are there ways that we could further enhance and hone the ability to show that we are thinking about D&I throughout the research process?

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Yeah, no, definitely. We have a couple thoughts really on that as well. And just the one thing that I’ll even say, kind of going back in terms of the recruitment, is we’ve been working really hard with our sample supply companies because that’s sort of frankly, another challenge is the representation within those sample companies and organizations are not fully reflective, or the reflections that are there, you know, some shoppers are hard to get ahold of.

So, you know, we’re kind of trying, again, in terms of you’re being proactive, trying to lead the charge with that, in terms of making sure those panels are more representative. So, we have an easier chance of representing in our research the correct population, whether it’s trying new techniques, piloting different opportunities, minimum quotas, all of this, again, not fully figured out. And I’m okay admitting all that.

Right. I think it’s having that conversation, thinking about it being proactive, and kind of pushing folks towards that. That was my tangent on that. Now, I’ll get back to the question that you actually asked.

 

Matt Salem 

It’s a good tangent.

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Thank you, which was about reporting. A couple of thoughts, really, with that. One of them? I don’t want to say, easy, but one of the things to do is, you know, we do a lot of visuals in our reports, even going back to proposals that you and I will do.

We have a wonderful relationship with, you know, an online visual supply company. I don’t know if I’m allowed to drop the name if they give us a discount or not. But Getty Images, in case they do. But I think what we did, there really importantly, was create a board that has visuals that are more representative of different genders, different couples, you know, not just sort of this white male and white woman eating chips together, you know, interracial couples, gay couples, whatever the case may be, that what you’re going to put in, people can start to see themselves.

I think that’s such a huge part right, let me see myself in the research, let me see myself, much like people talk about on TV, and in commercials, like, we don’t want people to feel alone, you know. So, there’s the diversity part but then is that an inclusive part, like feeling, included, and feeling a part of that. So that’s from a visual perspective.

And the other part that we’ve really talked about as a team, and Cheryl Brie, who’s one of my fantastic qual colleagues, couldn’t be here, but I do want to name drop her because this was her fantastic idea was to do diversity and inclusive sort of panel, right.

So, we’re a small company. Even though our HR is doing a wonderful job of bringing in diverse audiences and diverse people on our team, no team could possibly represent every aspect, right? Like every team can have, you know, a male and a female in every race represented. So, the goal of this diversity panel is to get a group of folks together very diverse backgrounds, ages, you know, genders, ethnicities, and to review reports, and kind of look at them through the lens of my, you know, I’m going to look at it differently than you are, you know, and provide feedback to that research team.

So, what you’re doing there is just kind of pushing beyond any biases that people have. And I think, you know, it’s like holding a mirror up and looking in the mirror and saying, you know, that’s me. But that’s, that’s one view. Let me get other views.

And I think this can have a lot of repercussions because maybe you’re not even picked that week to have your report reviewed. Right? But you’re like, who maybe I will be? Let me make sure I’m thinking about this in the right way. And I think it’s just a really fantastic way to broaden all of our horizons with all that.

And I just wanted to kind of share a silly story, but I think about one report I was reviewing with my team. And it was for men’s facial care. And we’re reviewing everything. And you know, I’m like, oh, that benefit copy is just too small. How do they know what is going to do for them? And all the guys on my team are like, Michele, we don’t care about that. Guys don’t care. They want to know, is it a cleanser? or a moisturizer or shaving cream? And we’re done.

And just even something as simple as that was my view as a female versus their view as a male was just so different in that interpretation. So, if you don’t have that, it could be just a missed opportunity for our clients in terms of giving them a little more depth and richness.

 

Matt Salem 

That’s a great point. I feel like when you read about D&I more broadly, you can see the impact that having a female perspective has on an organization, particularly the executive levels. There’s a lot of statistics out there that say that companies that have more female executives are more successful overall, of course, financially, but also through other aspects. So, it is interesting just because it’s male grooming. You can still have the female opinion. I mean, I can’t tell you the number of fem-care studies I’ve worked on over the years. And I’d like to think I brought some notable points to the conversation, despite the fact that I’m not personally using these products.

So that’s a great point that you raise. I never thought I’d be such an expert fem-care, to be quite honest with you. So that’s all great stuff. What about the last piece? I know there’s the philanthropic angle and that Behaviorally is trying to ensure that that is an area where we’re doing our part.

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

That’s a great point. And it’s something that we’ve always cared about, right? We have products that we purchase for our research. So, we’ve always been really good about donating them to shelters.

So, I think it’s doing that to make sure we are giving back, whether it’s even honestly sheltered for dogs, frankly, but there are still areas that underprivileged shelters for females, domestic violence, you name it, making sure that we’re providing opportunities for folks and giving back in that case.

We recently had a team that to Habitat for Humanity trip locally. So again, making sure that we’re participating in making the world around us a better place a couple of years ago, pre-COVID, you know, we had a class of fifth-graders from an inner-city school come into kind of just show them about work and things that maybe they wouldn’t see on a day-to-day basis.

So that’s something we hope we’ll be able to pick back up. But I think it’s really an area that, as people, you know, we want to do for Behaviorally, but also for ourselves, frankly, like, I think I did the Habitat for Humanity trip. I call it a trip, but it was in New Jersey. So, I don’t know where I think I went, but it was,

 

Matt Salem 

Everything’s a trip these days

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Everything is a trip when you get to leave your house. Right, exactly.

But I think it also was an opportunity for me to bond with my colleagues outside of just work and, you know, while doing other things and feeling good about it. And it was on a school day, so to speak, right, I left work.

So, I think the fact that the company is allowing us to do that, on their time, you know, just makes you feel like you’re a part of a good organization. And I think that was a really positive day. And I think we’ll do more of those things just to kind of keep it going for the betterment of the world around us, but also for ourselves and keeping people engaged.

 

Matt Salem 

Well, it’s great to see all the work that’s being done here and really honing some of the existing areas that we’ve really committed to in terms of diversity and inclusion. One thing I’m wondering is just, you’ve been very heavily involved. You said you went to the Habitat for Humanity. You’re obviously part of the committee itself, you know, what do you find most rewarding?

And what keeps your continued interest? Why is this an area that you’re focused on personally?

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

It’s interesting. We have, like I said, in the beginning, it’s kind of getting that conversation started.

And I have a five-year-old son. He’s so fresh to the world. So, part of it is I want to create a better world for him. But I also want him to be a part of that. So, I think with kids is a lot about modeling the behavior you want for them. So, I feel like, for me, I was gonna get weepy a little bit here.

 

Matt Salem 

Where’s the Kleenex?

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Modeling that behavior, and I think it’s enough to just talk about it. I think, for me and the point of my life, it’s like, I need to actually do something.

I think I’m a relatively good person and always have been, but probably passive. Like, maybe I wasn’t doing bad things to the world. But was I actually doing good and moving things forward? And I think that to me now is something that is very important to me to do as a person and also to reflect that for my son, as well.

And I think just with the company, you know, we’ve gone through so many changes, it’s, I’ve been here 15 plus years, the people that I work with here are friends, and people want to do, I don’t want this to be just about work, you know, we have to make this about people.

People are what make companies successful. Yes, we have great methodologies, we have a whole bunch of stuff, we have a lot of expertise. But keeping your people happy, and engaged and fulfilled, and comfortable and feeling included to me is just the way that’s gonna get all of us to succeed in life.

 

Matt Salem 

Well said, and well done there. I mean, it’s clear that your passion is genuine in the area. And I really love everything that you just had to say about it. And I couldn’t agree with you more, you know, people want to work with people, right? People don’t want to work with products; they don’t want to feel like it’s all about a product. It’s about the people.

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Right?

 

Matt Salem 

Whether it’s us internally, whether it’s interactions between our clients and us, I’m sure our clients feel the same way within their own organization, right. People want to work with good people. So, Michele, certainly a good person, one of the best people out there. I’d like to thank you very much for coming on the show today.

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

My pleasure.

 

Matt Salem 

Great to have you as a guest to our audience. Once again, thanks for tuning into our best behavior brought to you by Behaviorally. Michele, we’ll catch you next time?

 

Michele Cerullo-McCorry 

Absolutely.